Hello everyone, my name is Kashyab-Chamersy and I work for Red Hat. Unfortunately, I
really like to speak. Cospeaker David cannot make it, so he left me to pick up the
pieces. I hope he can hear me in the back. So I began working with five 11 months ago,
so last first step, just about then. But before that, my background is in virtualization
and virtualization based management tools. So yeah, today we'll talk a little bit about
Federal State of Affairs and what's going on. Yeah, this is a collective effort, so I'm
presenting many people to work here. Some people might be in the room, so without them, all
of this won't be possible. A quick, a timeline slide. It's almost 10 years of
a risk-five in the Federal lands. 2016, Richard Jones is not here at the moment, but I started
the bootstrap and David, my close-picker, started right after that, and then there were
cummi-based builders and slowly there's a packaging, porting grind of, you know, porting
all the 24,000-plus packages to risk five, over the years, and slowly hardware came into existence,
so builders that are based on hardware. And most recently last year, we've had several highlights,
talk a bit more in the next slide, but this is also one of the last year, we had, I think the first
time, both the main primary architecture, Federal images, and the risk-five architecture.
I went out on the same day. Sorry. I went out on the same day, so there was also a rail 10
developer preview on this five. Yeah, in Federal 43 rebuild, and so on. 26, some more improvements,
we'll talk a bit. So that's sort of the rough happenings in the recent past year. One of the main
things is we moved to a new cozy server, the build infrastructure, so David used to maintain
another overlay, which tracks the non upstream changes in Fedora, the packaging related changes,
patches that are not upstream or in progress, so they build. And that's now moved to the primary
Fedora infrastructure, so that's a, that's starting on Fedora infrastructure, this new server,
and that's a good step towards risk-five becoming a primary architecture, because we want the
builders also to be running on the Fedora infrastructure, so this is a good step towards that.
And during the Federal 43, we had a nasty bug, most of the 43 was ready for a long time, and we
hit a sort of nasty bug in debugger, that the program that provides scripts and other tools to
properties to produce tracing and debugging data, but that's sort of the work with upstream
containers, bin noodles, folks, debugger it, maintainers, and that's sort of the unblocked some 15
or packages that were not being, that were blocked due to this issue, but that's not solved.
And of course, there's the chimneysweep task of streaming changes that are not yet
streamed from the separate code you server, we'll maintain to Fedora proper, so that's the classic
upstream work, and yeah, some more improvements like in the past, Fedora images were built locally,
now they're built in the standard infrastructure, you're classic tooling that the excited
excel to use is, and most recently we've got QMU emulated risk-five sea troupes in the
infrastructure, so package your scan, now test their software and produce arpins, the copper is
a place where people can upload custom arpins for people to test, for example if you have,
I don't know some bug fix, an OVMF firmware, a virtual firmware software, and you want to provide
bills for testing, that's a good place to do that before they go into Fedora main, so that's,
where you know you have these are QMU emulated sea troupes, but still that's something nice to have,
then nothing. Okay, we have a situation, and that's the hardware, what's going on?
Now before we go, last year, Emil, a season in the room, and did an excellent talk on all the
different kinds of risk-five boards for the past six years, and I highly recommend you to watch it
if you're new to this like a system, so I'm not going to cover all that things, so Emil gives
a really good overview of all these different boards, and so yeah, I recommend you to watch that,
and this we will see what's new relatively. This is my, the first board, actually I have,
this is the only board, actually I have, I'm testing, now some of my desk, it has a it's standard
form factor, the P550 was released 2024, and it's a standard ITX mini ITX I guess, yes, and the fan
is a bit loud, but this is the main machine where I'm doing all the build work, and most of Fedora
builders are also, the heavy duty stuff happened on this, and it's based on the easwing system
on ship, and that's being upstream, some of them are upstream parts of the drivers are upstream, others
like clock and so on, are still being upstream, this version 9, I guess, that one, clock is it,
I'm not a kernel guide, so I don't pretend to be that, but those who are interested in that, so you can
check the details. Okay, this is a bit of a novelty board, so this is from 10 starrants, this comes as a
PCIe card that you can slot in, and it can run in so on Linux, and it's a black hole thing,
and it's the use case mostly for AI inferencing, this is my AI moment of the talk, not my there,
I guess, so yeah, it's for AI inferencing and training, and I haven't had a chance to try this
out yet, maybe soon, and it can boot with mainline kernel, and there's some limitations, I think it's
only like UART serial console kind of a thing, and Jufa Stini, both the patches, and that's being
worked on. This is somewhat relatively new, this from milk 5, that's based on a chip call URDP
1000, UR is the ultra risk, and that's, that has four more cores than the board we saw before,
this side 5, high 5, premier p5, 5, 0, and I have access to an evil board of this CPU to not
the type in itself, but that's, so let's add the risk by some it from Fuwei, one of the community
members who did have an access to type in itself, and this is definitely, in my limited testing,
I only got access like two weeks ago, in my limited testing, it's been reasonably good in the
bills I'm doing, and mostly all the work I'm doing is for bills, so it's pretty decent so far,
but remains to be seen, I have some benchmark, like very basic simple benchmarks, poor
benchmarks, I'll show a couple of them, to just give a sense of it, again the upstreaming some
parts are upstreamed, others are still in progress. Okay, this was announced like two days ago,
I'm going to find Jupiter 2, a couple of URLs move find this, another one called side p,
I guess they're also selling this thing, and this is based on SpaceMet Core K3, and it has a
couple of wallplanes, I don't have access to it, so I can't say much meaningful things about it,
but it is supposed to be the compatible with the latest ISA specification, and also has
hypervisor support it says, so I'm curious about all the hardware virtualization stuff, so I think
it remains to be seen, this is, it's possible to order maybe some of already placed orders, I guess,
in this room. Okay, this one is again from 10 star, and I saw this at
Risfy Summit, not America last year, a couple of months ago, that thing itself, what you see on the
screen is not the board, obviously, it's the FPGA that apparently costs as much as a sportscar,
which is not that much when you're working in this semiconductor industry, I'm told,
and that's running their Askelon CPU for the Atlantis platform, that's the board that
is supposed to come out. Next quarter, there was a bit of delay I heard, but I don't know much about
how that's progressing, but the current estimated ETA is later this year, and you can actually
try this out in emulated hardware, in QMU, the quick emulator, the rest-style program, and
for a simple command line, you can try, of course, you can construct very complex command lines
that QMU too. Again, for this one also, upstreaming a started in the kernel too, there's some
links for those who are interested, I haven't uploaded slides yet, but I will do it later after this.
So yeah, the actual board will be obviously much smaller than this one, and this is, yeah.
I think this was running doom or something, that's a classic game, right?
Okay, this is the benchmarks I was talking about, this is again, simple compression of a
federized file with exact one for an eight course, and for single core, you almost have like 50
person performance overhead for P550, but I mean, benefit or lead for DP 1000.
When I say P550, I'm talking about the sci-fi high-fi premier P550, just for short,
and that has four cores, I say, mentioning, and DP 1000 is eight cores, obviously, it scales
a bit better, few on more details I have linked there, yeah, this is the other bin noodles,
because we were debugging that debugging it saga, so I think that's one of the reasons I did
bin noodles, or maybe David asked me, my course speaker, to do, to try the bin noodles build,
and that's sort of the rough, without testing the benchmark itself, I kind of drops the
time in the kernel space by half, and quite, quite decent bill speed, if you're doing a lot of
bills, this is what you're looking for, this kind of speeds. I haven't done the kernel benchmark,
there's a KC bench tool and other stuff like that, so LVM, which will take two days, maybe more.
So yeah, that's surely driven by its higher combination, it's cache combination, L3 and the
last level cache, and also higher IPC, yeah, this is the basic thing, didn't do anything more beyond this.
Okay, I don't want to get more into details, this is just for completeness, all of
Bernstein has a really nice web page with excellent benchmarks for developers to do, RVV, okay,
there he is, with the back of the room, for developers to try performance portable core, so definitely
check out that link once slides are up, and there are also some more benchmarks a couple of years
ago by Richard and Andrea from the risk of community, which shows again, bill times for different
packages, because that's what we're doing in federal rights, a lot of bills, a lot of other things.
Okay, so we're here, what do you want to pay, if you're just getting started? I think there are many
risk-fight developers here, I see many, many of some human faces, but for those who are new to this,
as I mentioned at the beginning, Emil's talk, last year's talk still has, all the advice he talks
about there is much of it is still valid, so if it depends on what you're trying to do, which
what to choose, if you want something quick and cheap, try the star 5 version 5 2, it also has
upstream support, but you are something slightly, if you have slightly more fans to burn, the
sci-fi P50 has pretty decent performance, and a lot of federal rights bills like GCC, LVM,
are all like QTE, all these are targeted at this board, and this is also what I've been using,
I've been pretty happy with it, mostly plug and play, more due to some small configurations at the
beginning, and if you're interested in the vector stuff, there's two boards, I'm going to apply
Jupiter and the banana pie is also vector capable, I'm going to add a vector challenge to myself,
because it's still a new to the ecosystem, but I haven't tried those boards myself, but you can
try them out here and probably check all last benchmarks if you're interested in the needy
security. Okay, last, once the RE823 capable boards are here, should be around the corners,
so we are told, try one of these Atlantis, probably that's, I'm looking forward to that one,
for sure, and yeah Titan is also around the corner should be out available, March, I was told,
early March, and yeah, the most recently announced Jupiter 2, so that's, that's about it there.
Okay, let's talk a little bit about what we have in store for upcoming releases and beyond.
Don't be scared, so this, I saw this slide myself last week, so how the kernels are built today,
the federal 43 kernels, the rest of the kernels, board specific kernels, so when they're trees,
Jason Montelian from the rest of the community does this, I'm on collaborating with others,
so different when they're a kernel trees, re-based them or forward both the patches onto the mainline,
stable kernels, and then you know apply some federal RP and specific sauce and stuff like that,
and then you know he uploads some stuff to his personal space, some RPM to maybe test
more experimental patches or something, and the rest of them he runs it through the RIS5 build system
and they end up in the RIS5 image, so that's, it's a lot, and there's a lot of federal specific kernels,
so that's a problem, right? The solution here is to come up with a unified kernel that will reduce
this complexity much more to the single kernel that will work across boards, but that requires a lot of testing,
so all the forward-porting and re-baseding will be done on a single always ready kernel,
the arc kernel repo, and that's the plan, and he also already has Jason already has
some testing with the latest 6.19 RC1 and RC2 kernels, some features work with several boards,
some don't, he has a spreadsheet that is tracking somewhere and maybe we'll be published in a
more in a different format over the weeks, as the dust settles down, and Jason's kernel arc repo
has more details, and he'll get up repos also around with the vendor trees, so the earlier
mess of a diagram will simplify like the top one, let's ignore the bottom one for a sec,
so it's form was simplified, the vendor trees and the patches that are in flight on LKML or elsewhere
are applied to the kernel arc repository and then run it through the build system, produce the build,
and these are apparently because these are for the framework laptop at the bottom, the LTS alternatives,
trees, these have some bugs with the graphics and so on, they don't quite work with the mainline
kernels, so therefore Jason chose the long-term kernels that's still work, so that will
result over time, I guess, so she's more of the mention for the completeness sake there, so that's
one of the main things and also looking forward, so that's sort of this of boards that Jason and others
are testing, it's a group effort and about 1718 boards, that's the bottom is the evaluation board
of the DP1000, that look fine, it's going to come up with, it's a lot of work, but it's going to be exciting
what else, yeah, it's again chimneys weeping, there's still a bunch of factors that need some work,
usual suspects the kernel and the shim, open duty K and so on, and mostly failing tests that
you need to work with upstream and follow them up, give their good reproducer and trial the patches
and get them solved, so working with them bugging some LLVM containers and they're reasonably responsive,
so that's good, it's just a box standard upstream work, there's nothing special in that sense there,
there's a respite tracker, it's about 100 packages or so, so, not super important, but
yeah, you know, to get them done, eventually, the details are in the respite tracker there,
what else, yeah right now most of the hardware is in other people's deaths, which is not exactly
resilience, so we won't move the builders, Koji builders, the systems that do all they have
lifting in terms of builds in classic federal infrastructure hardware, that's also a part of
a requirement for making a primary architecture on, yeah, in Inferdora, so we're working with the
federal engineering steering committee and others to, you know, make that happen, it will take some time,
just need to get the right things in place, like this, and once the Avi 23 boards are available,
preferably those because they will stand, you know, you don't garbage them two quick, so
because if you use the older boards likely to go, it's still soon, soon, it's maybe,
so, but anyway, hope it will be our hope or expect, rather, our Avi 23 systems to be racked,
and yeah, working with the federal team and others to sort out the details there, just process.
Okay, this is a big topic, what about the baseline, right? Right now, like,
other prominent distributions, federal also uses the RV64 GC as the baseline, and still,
the community is still discussing, went to move and sort out the details, it's an open discussion,
David has some thoughts on it, so if you're on metrics, I think, should be around, maybe
he's even watching the stream, so it's an open question and we're still figuring out, once,
what big thing, it's open because we're in prayer reference, I'm going to back from, right? So once
this Atlantis or Space Mid-K3 boards are available, we can then use that to, as I say, target that,
so that's evolving situation, but what about the software side? Right, so for that,
Drew Jones, current developer in the nearby space, did a really nice talk at the
RISFICE summits NA last year, where he covers a lot of ground in terms of the, how
software ecosystem stays, you know, tries to catch up with the extensions that are being produced,
you often hear that hardware is ready, software is not ready, but he makes a good case that
it's not quite the situation, software is also catching up, and he points out one of the things,
I just put there from that talk, is the system called the hardware prop, which will let you, it's a
key value pair that will let you detect the extensions reliably for user space programs, so
the details are in the kernel documentation, so we can check out that talk, and of course,
the RVA-23 kernels, the latest spec kernels, should support or will support, because
kernel doesn't break the user space, right? So should support the older baseline user space,
and, again, well, that's an evolving situation, we don't have a concrete answer yet,
it's the figuring out the details of it, just want to rush into something that turns out into a mess,
so just want to be more thoughtful and careful about it. What else, I think that's that's that's that one
of this. Yeah, actually, I don't have a lot more here, so obviously, you don't always get a chance
to enable new architectures, so it can be a good opportunity to try out how all the ecosystem works,
there's a lot of variables, I myself, I'm still learning, and so yeah, come join if you're interested
in this sort of thing, test the packages that you, you're really care about, report the bugs,
work without the strain, it's a classic upstream work, and yeah, through each out, there's a
metric channel, that's where most of the active communication happens, on the Federer
metric server, and there's also discussion forum and Federer devil list obviously as well,
so that's the main areas of communication. Yeah, a bunch of references, so that's pretty much it,
I've gone actually. Questions, comments? What is Federer VForce? Okay, so the question is what
is the Federer VForce? That's a good question, Federer VForce is another community by the Chinese
Academy of Sciences, and China, they're producing vendor specific borne, so that's not official Federer.
So official Federer is all the stuff that happens in the Federer metric channel, and the Federer
list, and so on, that is when there are specific borne, so that's why the branding is different,
I'm not a branding specialist, but yeah, that's not primary for Dora, I hope that answers, yeah,
thank you. Go for it. Please speak a bit. Flat packs. It's really hard to listen here.
Yeah, I don't know much about flat packs, but there is some discussion, so the question is about
flat packs, and you're building on P550, did you say? The Wild5 Jupiter, so I don't know much about
flat packs myself, there is some discussion in the community I heard from the Federer project leader,
as well, there's some kerfuffle going on in the community, I was, I'm not up to speed on that,
but we can discuss on the metric channel, so I don't have meaningful answer to that one of our
fries. Yes, the food loader has triggered the food loader's life in there, for the Lord,
I'm a checker, we have a package, you maintain the food, we are able to move for different
hardware, let's say let's go to the vendor, because that's one might have a different system,
how are you able to work with that with the different hardware that you have now for a spy?
Are you going to maintain the safety of the package, are you going to have been there?
Okay, the question is about U-boot, and what we're going to do, I actually have absolutely
no idea how we're going to deal with that, so we have to figure that out on the, on the,
there's so many things to track, so it's impossible to keep up speed on everything,
but you can join the metric channel and ask us there, sure David has a response,
because he has all the federal cash in his memory, so he's, so he's been building it for
like 10 years or so long, sorry David, I'm putting it in a spot in the ether,
what, I just question please, what about the deviant route?
Okay, the question is, Ubuntu decided to be RVH23, the change the baseline, or at least I read,
I don't know, they did or not, but I read some noise, what about Fedora? Is that the, is that the
question? Yes, okay, well as I was saying a bit ago, we don't have a concrete decision yet,
we don't rush into something to market something, Fedora really cares about staying up close
enough stream and you know doing things the right way, even if it takes a bit longer, so it's
being discussed and I think that's, that's my estimate, it's not a, it's not a set in stone answer
anything, likely that we'll switch to that sooner once the baseline is available, yes, so that's
the, and so it's still an evolving situation, somebody doesn't have to be figured out, yes,
I just want to clear up that the, yes, the lane is going to ask which to RVH23, okay?
The node is then another test that's still using RVH22, yeah, so, okay, okay, okay, so,
I'm going to clarify that, okay, I'm going to clarify that the latest, the one to,
kernels are RVH23 based, and some of the older boards are RVH64GC, any other questions?
I think we good? That's kind of totally implemented for it, is there anything that you're
majorly missing in terms of toolkits outside of just hardware that runs and stuff,
if what else can hardware people give you now? How do you mean how do I, maybe, how do I
order to begin with? Sorry, the question was, what else can the hardware people give besides,
are you missing anything, so more seriously, are you missing anything? It's a good question,
I'm not sure if I can give a deep answer to this, first of all, yeah, of course,
yeah, better performance, my personal interest in virtualization, so I would like to see better
hypervisor supports, that says the personal answer, David would have a different answer,
maybe he's watching and on the stream and all half-and-tots, so yeah, there is one thing I would
like to say, you don't need to have risk-fight hardware to help. Yeah, okay, Marseille is a contributor
also in the federally system, so he is clarifying that you don't really need a hardware to contribute
the package, because he himself uses heavy, cumumier-based emulators, it is a simulator to do all
his bill work, so he's just making a point that if you have a strong enough arm system or
x86, that can run good cumumier binaries, emulated VMs, that is slightly faster than some of the hardware
that you have, that's fair, yes, but not everyone has access to such heavy beefy missions,
so that's the other side, so how are we doing at that time, by anything else, yeah, five minutes
or can take some time to breathe? Okay, I think that's about it, thank you very much.