Hello everyone, we're starting with the next session, which is a panel discussion about
experiences of being funded for your software.
Paloma is going to moderate and she will introduce all the fundees.
Hello, check in in how everyone doing it's lunchtime.
I'm not, I'm good.
Thank you.
I'm good.
So thank you for being here and for the interest.
I'm guessing.
Yes.
How are you?
I'm guessing there's a lot of curiosity nowadays, you know, well open source has grown a lot.
Everything has been changing a lot and we want that to make a profession, we want that
to make it solid sustainable and we have to think a lot of those formula people over here
because they have been going through this journey and this is what we learn a little
bit.
What the heck does a funding means for an open source community for a project, is this necessary?
It's not, how do I choose for one and things alike?
Is that really helpful?
Should I avoid money and just burn it?
What should we do?
And we have a one hour short time for a bunch of people and we start with short introductions
so we can know them a little bit better and a little bit of their paths and we follow
with simple discussion.
As we have a nice warm crowd over here, pressing questions, discussions, we can try to
figure that out, we can run also microphones, stop talking, so let's get started with
the easy print.
So I everyone, I'm Lucy and I'm Guil, and we work on the easy print and it doesn't
work, but we're both French IT engineer and I think it doesn't work, so we're both
French IT engineer and we work on a library called Wiziprint which is a Python library
which transform HTML and CSS into PGF and so we really like a specification and food.
And so what is Wiziprint?
Already say that and so it's like a browser but instead of putting the output inside window,
putting inside a PGF so you have your HTML and you have nice invoices, report, whatever
you want to generate.
So a bit of a story about Wiziprint, Wiziprint started in 2011, the goal was to automate document
generation at this time, Wiziprint was created inside French company, setting project
to make sense to people and we try several stuff like a world-like office, Lattec, Fire
Fox and so on but it's kind of limited to do all the page feature and also to have something
who looks nice because if you ask a designer to make a Lattec document really nice, I think
that don't like you after that.
So Wiziprint was created in 2011, after that we became W3C member and Wiziprint gained some
stars on GitHub and until this time it was just a project inside the company and it's in
2020 when we both left the company to work on Wiziprint almost full-time.
During the time at the company, the Open Patreon account to get some donation but they didn't
put in place a lot of marketing stuff to talk about it so at best it was $178 per month
so not a lot of money to eat every day and so in 2020 October we launched Kobuyon
because the French and we like food.
We have the goal of leaving from Fries Software from there so we can talk about the source
of income, not the Patreon account.
So we try to get some money using different strategies, some of them are software development,
we wrote some code and we get paid to add new features in Fries Software and that's
pretty nice.
We also paid to integrate Wiziprint in the different stacks our users have.
We developed Wiziprint software, we helped users to use the software and that's useful
because creating HTML and CSS is hard and when you want to generate some beautiful
documents with it, well we have to find some people that can do this and that's us.
We do some consulting, help people understand how it works and how they can use Wiziprint
in a nice way.
We got donations with a sponsoring system, some companies give us some money that's really
really useful.
We got some grants to from NLNet which is incredible so if you just amazing check what
they do, it's cool and we also offer support so that if some users have some problems
that can just send a mail and they're sure that we'll answer their questions quickly
so that's how we get the money.
There are other things we tried or we don't want to try.
Setting software is not something we're interesting because we like to write Fries Software
and it's complicated for us to separate what could be sold and what couldn't.
The same for plugins, there are lots of projects that works with a close source plugins
but we don't want to do this even it's okay.
We could offer training also but nobody asked us maybe once but it's not a real source
and last we could build something online so that people can send HTML and CSS and we send
the PDF back.
But that's complicated but there's just the two of us so writing with the print is complicated
enough.
We don't want to maintain an online platform so that's it.
Thanks.
Well we are the general foundation in Mariamachadas part of the Board of Directors
long time community member.
My name is Sri Ram Ram Krishna I am a part of the fundraising team I've been a former director
of the GNOME Foundation and I've been with this project since it's inception in 1997.
I guess I'll speak to my slides here.
There's a lot of stuff on this slide so I'm going to let you all read it and I'll tell
my our story.
So GNOME is what I consider one of the foundational projects in an era when open source
and free software were just getting started and the mid to late 90s and it's very likely
at some point they're using software that was built by us.
We did an incredible amount of engineering in those early days to build the human interface
to hardware.
So this is our purpose is to build a desktop and a human interface that is great to use
easy to use and consistent and it's designed.
But in order to complete our mission we need to create a foundation because as the project
grew over time we need to find ways to fund infrastructure, getting people to conferences,
organizing conferences and various other things that to build a sustainable ecosystem.
So in that regard we set up this foundation and currently the foundation consists of
a interim on paid position for an executive director to full time paid positions for a
director of program management and an infrastructure engineer and administrative assistant.
In the early days because we were a foundational project we had actually quite a bit of investment
from lots of corporations and companies and so forth and we mostly dependent on those primarily
then we did endos early days but as time moved on and ecosystems change right and as open source
became more involved in infrastructure, code as infrastructure, interest in the desktop
wind and so we find ourselves as less is paid to our project and we need to find new ways
to fund our ecosystem and so now we're shifting our patterns to one time of donations and
basically community driven donations but mostly focused on recurring donations. So that's who we are.
Right now the growing process consists of 200 developers working on the growing platform and as I said
it's important another you're probably using some part of our technology if you're using
either on Linux on a server or on a client. So that's me.
Thank you. Hello everyone. My name is Gabor Sarnyash. I'm here to talk about the funding
of the Dark Daily project. I am not a founder of the Dark Daily project and the related company
Dark Daily Labs but I've worked at Dark Daily Labs and I have been around long enough for the project to
know about it. So first I would like to convince you that databases are kind of a unique type of software.
Databases are fundamental building blocks and companies put their most valued data into databases.
It's often the primary source of truth and your database really shouldn't crash and even if it
does it should still keep the data intact and recoverable. So it's fair to say that they are
difficult to make. They also have to be feature-rich and this together is that it's about 10
plus person years to create a database system. If you don't believe me here is a slide from Mike Stombracur
the founder of Postgres. He said that a database from production to production readiness is about
20 million dollars to develop. This is more about a hundred percent years. So it's difficult to do
a database and it's definitely not possible to do it with a group of volunteers. It's what
of upfront investment and even if you do succeed in this new era of cloud systems there is always
the risk that your shiny open source database system gets taken by a cloud vendor. They package
it into their existing ecosystem and start selling it as a database as a service and take a lot
of your revenue with them. This is obviously quite a problem. It's especially a problem if you
fund your development using venture capital because if you do that you give up the ownership
some ownership of your product to your investors and after a while those investors will want to
have returns on their investments and they will not be happy to see a big cloud provider taking
all the revenue from the software that they have fund. This of course is kind of an inevitable
rock pool for this project. This happened for example with Redis. What happened with Redis
is a series of real licensing instances over the last couple of years. Redis started with
BSD but now it has three different licenses. Two of them are known as OSI approved
and just source available licenses. Similar things happened to Redis' module system and if you
are a company and you would like to pick a database system that you trust to store your data in,
this just does not spark confidence. This is not really what you want to see. At this point you
would may want to consider a closed source or alternative that is at least more planable and stable.
This is not unique to Redis. This happened with MongoDB. This happened with Elastic
and a bunch of other database systems like D graph that went through four licenses in its lifetime.
So VC money is difficult. The other model that you can do is the ecosystem model. This is obviously
done by Postgres. We all know and love Postgres. I think it's fair to agree that it's a very successful
project but this needs a long runway to get going. Postgres has its roots in academia and it's
a 30 plus years old project so it takes a long time to build up that network of companies and once
you do that you are actually quite resilient. If a cloud vendor takes your system you can even
benefit from growing the ecosystem but it is difficult to steer a shape that this many companies.
And the final model is Boost trapping. This maybe is popularized by SQLite which is one of the most
deployed pieces of software ever. SQLite was originally developed by a single developer and funded
by various US Navy and General Dynamics Fund. This is the model that we used for DugDB. What is
DugDB? DugDB is an in-process analytical database system that supports SQL. It's MIT licensed and
it has it roots in academia. It was developed at CWA. I'm stood up by Johannes Moulison and Mark Rasford.
And at this day it's a widely successful database project with over a million downloads per day
and over 300,000 unique visitors every day. But it wasn't easy to get here and it still isn't
easy to find a project like this. We tried something called the DugDB Foundation which was a
non-profit but that holds the intellectual property, the trademark of DugDB and also accepts donations
and it turns out that the latter part doesn't really work. It is very difficult to operate an
organization like this because if you provide any services in exchange for those donations,
that is a no-go in the eyes of the tax authority. And even though we could collect some donations,
it's only enough to maybe fund one or to developers not enough to have a dynamically developing
database product. What did work for us is DugDB Labs. This is a boost rep company based in Amsterdam.
What had with this is that the project was already known in open source and we already had customers
lining up to get services from this company. This company has today grown to about 30 people and this
is working in what you could label as the red hat model. So it develops an open source piece of
software. It provides services around it. It provides support, consultancy, future prioritization,
and so on. And as a bonus, we also work with other companies for example mother Dug. DugDB Labs
owns shares in mother Dug and mother Dug has a big consulting contract with DugDB Labs and then
mother Dug can develop their own database as a service. So the incentives are clearly lined out.
DugDB Labs is working on open source and mother Dug is working on a closed source cloud database
system. And overall this has been going well so far and I will be happy to discuss this in the
coming debate. And now we're at last a k-z-smaku.
Hi, I'm Gium, creator of Macoon. So it's not a raccoon. It's an API-moking tool. Sandboxing virtualization
that I created more than eight years ago. And no, I'm the maintainer, main maintainer, founders,
slash creators, slash benevolent dictator for life or something. So it does API-moking mostly.
And also the subtitle is sustainability for the rest of us. I think it's important. There is sometimes
a bias toward massive open source projects. So sometimes we forget, we know the industry numbers.
We forget that it's not good, right here. I mean everything is messed up. I should have put that first.
The numbers are really not good. And we have massive open source projects that can make us
for good that most of the time it's only one or two person. They are burning out. They have a
no money. And the project will be probably dead in some years. So still, we have decent numbers.
So eight years old, eight thousand GitHub stars, vanity metrics. Nearly one million downloads,
thousands of monthly active users, even if it doesn't mean anything really. We were backed by
GitHub accelerator in 2023, which was nice. And we are used by a lot of big companies.
I think for example, what are from Germany? There are 20 teams using the tool. They are contributing
just a little bit. That's already nice, but it's used. What I discovered when trying to,
and sometimes I say monetize, and then I'm like, oh, it's open source, sorry. It's not monetization.
Still, we have to found our work, our labor on this project, the maintenance, the, you know,
the nights, the bugging things, the bugging things in the train when I was coming here this morning.
And what I discovered is that when the popularity is massive, it's easier. I saw that with tailwind,
viewed JS. Of course, there are a lot of examples, Doug DB. And I wish one day we would be like you.
But when you are like a smallish, mediumish project, it's definitely not small. It's definitely
not massive. And we are not backed by a famous company. It's hard to get public funding because
we are used in a lot of companies, but it's not maybe critical, or, you know, it's not an
critical infrastructure. So it's harder to get public grants, for example. So what I also discovered,
and what what can we do when it's like that. I also discovered that there is one different
receipt for each project. And I think we will, we will see that we all are very, very different
models. We tried use of donations, which is great. We are always super grateful for each donation.
It's, it's fantastic, but it doesn't pay the bills. It's, it's very complicated. The next step was,
and I put that in the same bucket. So company sponsorship and support contracts.
For me, the most natural next move was to ask the companies using the tool to pay for it, or to
give something back. Because they save time. They deploy it in their infrastructure. They run
test against the API mock. It's working well, etc. So, you know, more security, more of everything.
It's very complicated. Sponsorship, it's complicated. That will be the first
the easiest thing to put in place. You know, by the way, you can put your logo and, you know,
you give back. Then you are talking to the marketing team, you know, and they're like,
oh, well, what is your click-through rate? How many pages do you have? Oh, you want 200 per month,
but you know, we are paying that for, we are paying 500 for UGS, but they have 500 billions pages,
and you have what? And you're like, yeah, okay, you know, but, and what is the click-through rate?
Oh, we are not tracking that, because, you know, privacy, friendly, etc. It's very complicated.
So, we have some sponsors. We are really grateful for that, but it's not working that well.
We tried super contract. Same. Really hard. Maybe because it's a developer testing tool.
It's not that critical. I mean, it's critical sometime, but if it's broken, you have time to fix it,
and maybe a super contract is harder to justify, you know, to your n plus 1 or something.
And for sponsorships, super contracts, you have multi-active users, you know, companies
using it, you try to contact them on LinkedIn, and suddenly you are a salesperson, and it's
hopeful, and they goes to, and to answer, and they say, you know, it's so complicated. I will have to escalate
10 levels to get an approval of something, so it's really complicated. And I nearly finished.
Pay for features. It didn't work for us, but you know, maybe it will. I would like to do that.
And then we finally set it up on a proper commercial offering. So, we are building a cloud,
SaaS, hosted version. Of course, it's all full, because now you answer,
from compliance questionnaires, you know, sub to summer, and all the things you don't want to do.
So, it's a nightmare, but no, it pays the bills, and the company is a lot of paying for something
that looks like very traditional IT contract, something. Yeah, and that's not my little
later slide, but I will stop there. I think providing more things shouldn't be the only way to
find the open source. Sometimes, I mean, we should be able to just work and maintain the thing,
and it should be already something, you know, that we could monetize, let's say. And yeah,
and the solutions, that's for the panel. So, and that's me. And that's it. Thank you.
APPLAUSE
So, from just like a little, yes or no questions, from your, from all the models that you mentioned,
that are quite different from the nature of the project, but also from the need of what you want.
So, just a yes or no, from the model you're using now, how many of you do you think you reach
a sustainable model? If it is the as your razor hand.
Yes, so for us it's a sustainable model.
So, from all the projects, we found one, because we kind of showed a lot of
differences in between how much we're searching for it, and you show very well. And when you're,
so the next question that I want to hear individually, it's when you are looking for a funding
model, what actually do you want to be fun? Because what everyone is saying is that no one wants to
have a company as we know it. We're trying to build a different type of thing that it doesn't
fit into the business model as it is, although we force ourselves to try to get this money,
as you said. That's why they pay for it. That's what they know. So, what is it? What is this thing
that we need to fund? What do you search when you're looking for a funding model?
Maybe I can quickly answer, I mean, from my point of view, like I said, when I finished my
show, I think we should be able to get paid for maintaining a tool because it's already providing
value. So, what I tried for a long time was to find a funding model where I could be paid for doing
that because I already provided value. And everything I read everywhere, all the advice I got was
to create a secret repository for paying people with extra content, extra marketing, extra tutorials,
extra everything. And finally, we do an extra software as a service. And it's a fantastic
adventure, but it's way more complicated than finding what a fund Mercedes spends who are using
the tool and say, okay, you are maybe saving $10,000 a year, $20,000. If you give $500 a year,
and 10 company does that, we are nearly there, I mean, not completely, but nearly there.
So, yeah, for the yes, no part, it's almost in between because most of
money comes from working on with the print, but we do other things outside, like teaching, for example,
so we have two main source of income with the print and the teaching. And for the funding,
like, yeah, kind of same maintaining and having time to add feature and doing bug fixes,
because when you have people coming, like, this is very important. You fix this bug now,
it breaks my production and it's a Sunday, so yeah, great, but no, we have life sometimes, you know?
So, yeah, I think the ability to book time and use it to book time, you need money for that.
Right now, as a fundraising, but we are doing this, we have our advisory board,
there are companies who gave us their feedback and also gave us an amount per year,
but also we are, since last summer, we have a website for recurrent donations or one
donation. We are moving forward to have our recurrent donations, to have an sustainable,
to have a better idea what we can count on on a monthly basis and be able to plan better.
As a foundation, we provide to our project, things like legal protection, infrastructure,
we help with many other things, and also, with that money, we would like to
be able to support our community, not only through events or help them travel to meet
and progress on the project, but we would like to be able to, in some point, to fund
a part of the project that otherwise would not be able to progress or they have less light,
there are less flacy, let's say, so that there are very much needed and having recurrent
donors and having a better idea what we would be, our monthly revenue will help us to do that,
so we are focusing to go there to be able to grow our project and better be a better project.
I'm just because you did an particular answer, because for your understanding that the
B has achieved some sort of sustainability, when you are thinking about the funding, I know you mentioned
things like the freedom, not to be at the mercy of an interceptor, for example,
but because you're a mix, how do you balance to make this stability, but also when you're
searching for your searching for everyone should be paid or there is a mix between that and volunteer
labor, how it is this funding used at the end to support this project?
So our long-term goal is to have longevity for the project and to have it not only maintained,
but also dynamically and rapidly developed over the years and so far this has been working,
and I think what helps Doug Dewey tremendously is that it is providing significant
cost savings for companies, so some of the cloud database vendors, the cloud data warehouses,
they do have a bad reputation for being very expensive and those we find online on social medias
that people report amazing cost savings by switching from those services to local services like
Doug Dewey, and then if some of that amount that was saved, they spend on a support contract for
Doug Dewey, that makes the project sustainable and it still generates them significant cost savings,
and what we try to achieve with Doug Dewey is that we have this core that is the
central piece of the database, and it's covered by some community support, it's a SQL engine,
it's a Python client, it's something that's essential, and then we have all these kind of
extensions, five format support extensions, database connectors around it, and they have varying
degrees of support, so obviously if you report that Doug Dewey crashes on a SQL query,
that's covered by community support, but if you have this obscure five format with this specific
cloud provider on the free BSD client, then you may have to pay up to get that fixed in a reasonable amount
of time, and that allows it to segment the market based on the demand for support.
And when I think that maybe Gium, the first Gium, could start answering because you are one person
project, you are also like a very small project, how much of your time and resources, your
internal resources are needed to find this funding models, and when you balance that for the
energy and amount of time and resources, you need to do the work, how much is it is really
important to keep on the pressure, the pressure of financial sustainability, or going more
towards the community building or community engagement process? It's quite special for us,
because we started during the COVID, and we didn't want to leave from fist of fair,
we wanted to leave from fist of fair in three years, and as we needed to stay at home,
we started to write a lot of content because that's all we could do, we couldn't work with
your friends, we wanted to do this at the beginning, and so the clients came, just because they
saw that we were offering some support on with the print, and so we don't spend much time
trying to find clients in a normal way, we don't send mails, we don't buy ads everywhere,
the clients see what we do, they often use the software, there are millions of users,
so if just one person gives someone it's okay, we don't have to spend time to find clients,
what's difficult for me is to switch from, I was working on the project for free, I was paid
by my company, and then I have to write a bill, and they have to pay me for the same
work I was doing for free before, and that was hard, hopefully Lucy says you must have a zero
ad, because you can't live with that, and that's much of the burden I have to do is just yes,
we have to get paid, and we have to find a way to get some money, so that's hard to answer the
question, we don't spend time to find clients, but we have to work on the way, we share the
knowledge we have, and get paid for that knowledge, and that's what's complicated, anything for us.
I just want to complex file a little bit, so go in beauty norm on this question about
what are searching for funding, what is internal capacity needed for searching for different types of
funding, also how much there's different funding models that we have tried out, are the work
and are not, have directly affected your core community and your users?
The different ways of funding that we have tried is obviously, as I said, we have an
unnecessary work who helps us to go through the year, let's say, we have done sponsorships, grants,
and now we are doing, and yeah, one, frontend time, our contributors, our community have been
on anything, I think the last, the way we are from racing at the moment, since last summer to
reach out, not only to our closer community, but also to the non-close community, but also the
users, we are using right now a pop-up, when every time we release a new version, we will
say, hey, so you like our work, maybe you would like to also support, and with that we are
reaching out people like my mom who have been using genome for the longest time, I have no idea
that with the money, but also non-close community, also didn't know that we actually need money to
be able to do our job, I think the latter, this new way to from race is the our backs also, as I
said, we can achieve recurrence revenue, trust revenue, and not only revenue from our contributors,
that should be always, I think, the objective, be able to reach out to our users, because
yes, companies are using us, and that's important, but also our users, they are obtaining a
product, which is safe for them to use, not only in a trusted product, but also in safety and privacy,
I think now more than ever is very important to communicate that, so yeah, I don't know if I
have answer. So I'll add one interesting, I guess anecdote or dimension to this, because we are a
desktop, one of the funding things we did do is to put it in the minder, on the desktop to say, hey,
this is a community-driven project, it's a nonprofit you're looking for funding, and one of the
things that makes it effective, and this is initially done, because I want to give our other
sister project, KDE, the credit for this, because they did this first, and it actually worked quite
well. So putting that reminder, maybe once a year, did KDE quite a bit about the money that we
are also trying, but for a lot of us, we're really privacy focused, so we were not sure whether
putting a reminder like that, but the effective of that is, if you're doing funding and you're
reaching out, you're only getting a portion of your audience, but people are running on a
desktop, you're reaching somebody, let's say, who's installed Linux on their laptop, you get them,
because they're not on social media, following Linux or anything like that, so one additional bit
info there.
So let's help, let's help, let's do a brainstorming exercise of imagination of like a
radical creativity here and try to understand and get out of this, because right now I think
most of our imaginations are very tied to what we know, which is business, which we're
complaining about the companies, but it's hard for us to get out of this, that's why we're
keep saying, well, I think we need to expand our capacity to understand how that model could be.
So let's do a little bit of brainstorming, wishlist imagination of where we are, where we want to be,
and how to get there with a little feature and reality. So if you were a project or someone listening
right now and you're thinking, well, I know I know I need more, I know I'm not handling
and I need more, but what is that what and how to get started? Should you apply for a grand
to ask someone to sponsor me, how would it be the first steps and where would it be the main go to
keep that not a daily check? I want to eat the next day, but a sustainable thing.
It's hard to find one goal because a great idea is to have a diversity of
source of income. If we have one idea that gives all the money, if the idea is not
a good and we'll lose that money where that's so, what we can do to be sustainable is to find
a lot of different sources of income and so a grand is a good idea that sponsorship is a good
idea, but letting users pay, it's a good idea, new features is a good idea, so maybe the next step
is to find all the next steps that we love out to do to find different sources of income, I think.
When choosing a source of income to start, it's not something fixed and that doesn't move
because if I don't do the slide with it, it extracts from a talk we did like two years ago
with all different sources of income and it's not exactly the same because some stuff
were in the, oh we do not earn money and now we use them, like for example the grand,
it was complicated especially with all the administrative stuff and now we do that so it's not
because you choose a way to finance the project that it's always till the same and you can add more
way to earn money after, think to start with the things you are more comfortable with also.
I would like to chime in regarding databases and foundational pieces of infrastructure,
obviously this can be quite capital intensive to develop, but I think the whole push for
European digital sovereignty is a very good opportunity, so if you have a project like this for
example a database project, it's not that difficult to position that as part of European
digital infrastructure and I'm personally quite skeptical of a big European cloud that could
drive all the existing American cloud providers, I just don't see that growing out of the ground
in the next five years so I think that you have to start with smaller building blocks, funding
smaller components like a database system and then organically grow it out of that so if you're
a project like that I think this is a good opportunity whether it is sustainable for the next 20 years
that's to be seen. Yeah I agree with the public funding, I think it will only
solve part of the problem as you say that a basis are more critical or use maybe in
production so it's definitely more critical and when you have a big audience or a lot of users,
maybe you have this critical mass and you can you know pray to to some public runs for a lot
of projects I don't think it's realistic even if they are used in a lot of companies. I have a more
radical idea that was suggested by friends of mine in open source too, maybe we should just ask
people to pay for the software somehow. Now I mean directly and not just relying on good will
even if I'm 100% convinced by open source and everything around it but I saw tools for some
of developer tools published under an MIT license but considering that the binaries are not
completely open source and they say pay for the binaries, build it from the repository and then
use it as you wish and but if it's for commercial purpose because it was built you know by
someone then there is an X-screen every week if it's for commercial purpose please pay for it.
It's still under an MIT license. I have mixed feelings but still you know maybe it will help
to ask people to pay directly and I know a lot of companies would be convinced and say oh my god
that we need to be compliant. It's compliance is another question that is very important for them so
maybe that's a thing to try I don't know. Sorry for the radical idea.
I really don't know how to answer this like in the future when you are starting as a
project and it's more or a small foundation or whatever your type is.
There are in 13 aspects that maybe grants will be good for you but I see them a little bit
limiting on time and on a scoop. So maybe for very concrete things that you need to
develop or go further that will take you for a short period of time and that could be
a good option but I still believe that you need to find a way to get the recurring revenue.
That's what is going to make you sustainable. That's what is going to make you
be able to plan ahead and to have big plans and big dreams and maybe achieve them.
I agree in charging for corporate uses but also one of the things that open source
gives is inclusivity to those parts of the world that cannot pay for 13 kinds of software.
So also is kind of to maybe for 13 countries is easier for them to pay but also we need to think
that the diversity that we can provide and they help that we can provide for 13 parts of the
world that cannot pay for the software. I think it's a very good thing to think about also.
Any less pressing thoughts for closing this?
If you have, if not please help me thank this lovely people for sharing their experience.
Anyone have a question?
Thank you for sharing your experiences. It's great to see that all of your projects
are of different size which I think is great opportunity to see your opinions. I would like to ask
about the other side of funding and that is giving it to your developers and the members of your community.
I would like to ask what is the, maybe for your project, what is the target scope that you're
looking for. I hear there is a company, I hear there is a foundation for a very large project.
I hear there is a small project for your different project.